Comments - Cockpen Douglas and potential links to Edinburgh - The Douglas Archives2024-03-28T17:35:22Zhttps://douglashistory.ning.com/profiles/comment/feed?attachedTo=3482022%3ABlogPost%3A152892&xn_auth=noWilliam
I was having a brief…tag:douglashistory.ning.com,2021-06-07:3482022:Comment:1532632021-06-07T20:14:29.347ZJames Izatthttps://douglashistory.ning.com/profile/JamesIzatt716
<p>William</p>
<p></p>
<p>I was having a brief look at some SRO documents and came across this one GD40/31/570 which I think also appears in the Douglas archives. Dated 1679</p>
<p></p>
<p>Contract for tack by Robert Earl of Lothian to John Douglas portioner in Newbattle as Tutor to William Douglas portioner of Ulstoune of the teinds and husbandlands of Ulstoune</p>
<p></p>
<p>The context and an earlier precept in 1677 suggests that this William was heir to his grandfather</p>
<p>and in the…</p>
<p>William</p>
<p></p>
<p>I was having a brief look at some SRO documents and came across this one GD40/31/570 which I think also appears in the Douglas archives. Dated 1679</p>
<p></p>
<p>Contract for tack by Robert Earl of Lothian to John Douglas portioner in Newbattle as Tutor to William Douglas portioner of Ulstoune of the teinds and husbandlands of Ulstoune</p>
<p></p>
<p>The context and an earlier precept in 1677 suggests that this William was heir to his grandfather</p>
<p>and in the same year there is a precept from Robert Earl of Lothian in favour of Adam Douglas portioner in Ulstoune as nearest lawful heir of his father John Douglas</p>
<p></p>
<p>So query do you think that this could have any connection to the John Douglas I have been researching. having checked again I cannot find any other John Douglas with a footprint in Newbattle at the time. My understanding of these situations is that a tutor or guardian would be a family member or some close connection so maybe this is a pointer back to Jedburgh </p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p></p> William
I was having a brief…tag:douglashistory.ning.com,2021-06-07:3482022:Comment:1530042021-06-07T20:14:28.008ZJames Izatthttps://douglashistory.ning.com/profile/JamesIzatt716
<p>William</p>
<p></p>
<p>I was having a brief look at some SRO documents and came across this one GD40/31/570 which I think also appears in the Douglas archives. Dated 1679</p>
<p></p>
<p>Contract for tack by Robert Earl of Lothian to John Douglas portioner in Newbattle as Tutor to William Douglas portioner of Ulstoune of the teinds and husbandlands of Ulstoune</p>
<p></p>
<p>The context and an earlier precept in 1677 suggests that this William was heir to his grandfather</p>
<p>and in the…</p>
<p>William</p>
<p></p>
<p>I was having a brief look at some SRO documents and came across this one GD40/31/570 which I think also appears in the Douglas archives. Dated 1679</p>
<p></p>
<p>Contract for tack by Robert Earl of Lothian to John Douglas portioner in Newbattle as Tutor to William Douglas portioner of Ulstoune of the teinds and husbandlands of Ulstoune</p>
<p></p>
<p>The context and an earlier precept in 1677 suggests that this William was heir to his grandfather</p>
<p>and in the same year there is a precept from Robert Earl of Lothian in favour of Adam Douglas portioner in Ulstoune as nearest lawful heir of his father John Douglas</p>
<p></p>
<p>So query do you think that this could have any connection to the John Douglas I have been researching. having checked again I cannot find any other John Douglas with a footprint in Newbattle at the time. My understanding of these situations is that a tutor or guardian would be a family member or some close connection so maybe this is a pointer back to Jedburgh </p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p></p> William
Thanks for that. An…tag:douglashistory.ning.com,2021-05-06:3482022:Comment:1530772021-05-06T21:17:36.231ZJames Izatthttps://douglashistory.ning.com/profile/JamesIzatt716
<p></p>
<p>William</p>
<p></p>
<p>Thanks for that. And yes quite a lot of fraught debate based on DNA evidence. It seems that they have settled the Stichill claim but where that leaves the people who have been cut out! </p>
<p></p>
<p>Anyway I hope that the information re Richard D adds something useful - I think the 'son' below re Pringle should probably be nephew of some kind by the way. </p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p> </p>
<p></p>
<p>William</p>
<p></p>
<p>Thanks for that. And yes quite a lot of fraught debate based on DNA evidence. It seems that they have settled the Stichill claim but where that leaves the people who have been cut out! </p>
<p></p>
<p>Anyway I hope that the information re Richard D adds something useful - I think the 'son' below re Pringle should probably be nephew of some kind by the way. </p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p> </p> Very useful research, James. …tag:douglashistory.ning.com,2021-05-06:3482022:Comment:1529412021-05-06T18:23:28.617ZWilliam Douglashttps://douglashistory.ning.com/profile/WilliamDouglas
<p>Very useful research, James. Thank you.</p>
<p>It is worth noting that there are rival claims as to Pringle genealogy.</p>
<p>Whichever I use, there was always someone putting forward an opposing view, not always in a friendly fashion!</p>
<p>Very useful research, James. Thank you.</p>
<p>It is worth noting that there are rival claims as to Pringle genealogy.</p>
<p>Whichever I use, there was always someone putting forward an opposing view, not always in a friendly fashion!</p> Note
Sir George Lockh…tag:douglashistory.ning.com,2021-04-24:3482022:Comment:1530702021-04-24T21:40:25.081ZJames Izatthttps://douglashistory.ning.com/profile/JamesIzatt716
<table width="703">
<tbody><tr><td width="220"></td>
<td width="68"></td>
<td width="415">Note</td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Sir George Lockhart</td>
<td>Advocate </td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Mr Walter Pringle</td>
<td>Advocate </td>
<td>Could be son of Alexander D Married Pringle in previous Generation</td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Mr John Eliot Ynr</td>
<td>Advocate </td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Henry Wallace ?</td>
<td>Advocate </td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Robert…</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table width="703">
<tbody><tr><td width="220"></td>
<td width="68"></td>
<td width="415">Note</td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Sir George Lockhart</td>
<td>Advocate </td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Mr Walter Pringle</td>
<td>Advocate </td>
<td>Could be son of Alexander D Married Pringle in previous Generation</td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Mr John Eliot Ynr</td>
<td>Advocate </td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Henry Wallace ?</td>
<td>Advocate </td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Robert Bennet</td>
<td>Advocate </td>
<td>Assoc Thomas Douglas</td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>James Allan</td>
<td>Writer</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Chas Oliphant</td>
<td>Writer</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>George Lawson</td>
<td>Merchant</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Mr Walter Pringle</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td>Could be son of Alexander D Married Pringle in previous Generation</td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Mr William Murray</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Mr John Eliot</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Mr Hugh Wallace</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Sir William Benett</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Thomas Douglas</td>
<td>Merchant</td>
<td>Of Cavers?</td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Mr William Murray</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Mr David Dunmuir</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Mr Walter Pringle</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td>Could be son of Alexander D Married Pringle in previous Generation</td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Mr Robert Benett</td>
<td>Advocate </td>
<td>Assoc Thomas Douglas</td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>David Dunmuir</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Mr Walter Pringle</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td>Could be son of Alexander D Married Pringle in previous Generation</td>
</tr>
<tr><td>James Allan</td>
<td>WS</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>George Lawson</td>
<td>Merchant</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Thomas Douglas</td>
<td>Late Baillie</td>
<td>Of Cavers?</td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Harie Douglas </td>
<td>Writer</td>
<td>Association Alexander D and Magdalen Murray</td>
</tr>
<tr><td>David Dunmuir</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>James Allan</td>
<td>WS</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>George Lawson</td>
<td>Merchant</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>David Dunmuir</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Mr Robert Benett</td>
<td>Advocate </td>
<td>Assoc Thomas Douglas</td>
</tr>
<tr><td>James Allan of Dewar</td>
<td>WS</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>John Campbell of Succoth</td>
<td>WS</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>George Lawson</td>
<td>Merchant</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Henry Douglas</td>
<td>WS?</td>
<td>Prob Harie Douglas</td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Sir Archibald Murray of Blackbarony</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Sir Hugh Paterson of B?</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Henry Douglas </td>
<td>Writer</td>
<td>Prob Harie Douglas</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table> William
One additional thing…tag:douglashistory.ning.com,2021-04-24:3482022:Comment:1530692021-04-24T21:38:31.484ZJames Izatthttps://douglashistory.ning.com/profile/JamesIzatt716
<p>William</p>
<p></p>
<p>One additional thing concerning another Douglas/Murray Marriage, and in fact a Douglas/Douglas marriage because a Richard Douglas Advocate in Edinburgh appears to be married twice and had issue</p>
<p></p>
<p>This may help to inform some of the issues which arose in connection with Thomas Douglas former Baillie in Edinburgh because this Richard, if Indeed he is a cousin would be connected to Douglas of Cavers but also Garvald and Whittighame.</p>
<p></p>
<p>There is no…</p>
<p>William</p>
<p></p>
<p>One additional thing concerning another Douglas/Murray Marriage, and in fact a Douglas/Douglas marriage because a Richard Douglas Advocate in Edinburgh appears to be married twice and had issue</p>
<p></p>
<p>This may help to inform some of the issues which arose in connection with Thomas Douglas former Baillie in Edinburgh because this Richard, if Indeed he is a cousin would be connected to Douglas of Cavers but also Garvald and Whittighame.</p>
<p></p>
<p>There is no clear connection with the other research I have done apart from the fact that Henry/Harie Douglas appears as a witness of some of the children and it is possible that Agnes Murray his first wife was connected to the Murrays of Blackbarony.</p>
<p></p>
<p> So if it is of any use this is a record the births - note Thomas Douglas Late Baillie appears at least once, </p>
<p></p>
<table width="1280">
<tbody><tr><td width="64"></td>
<td width="64"></td>
<td width="64"></td>
<td width="64"></td>
<td width="64"></td>
<td width="64"></td>
<td width="64"></td>
<td width="65"></td>
<td width="64"></td>
<td width="220"></td>
<td width="68"></td>
<td width="415"></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Richard</td>
<td>Douglas</td>
<td>Agnes </td>
<td>Murray</td>
<td></td>
<td>Margaret</td>
<td>1673</td>
<td>Edinburgh</td>
<td></td>
<td>Sir George Lockhart</td>
<td>Advocate </td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>Mr Walter Pringle</td>
<td>Advocate </td>
<td>Could be son of Alexander D Married Pringle in previous Generation</td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>Mr John Eliot Ynr</td>
<td>Advocate </td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>Henry Wallace ?</td>
<td>Advocate </td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>Robert Bennet</td>
<td>Advocate </td>
<td>Assoc Thomas Douglas</td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Richard</td>
<td>Douglas</td>
<td>Agnes </td>
<td>Murray</td>
<td></td>
<td>Anna</td>
<td>1675</td>
<td>Edinburgh</td>
<td></td>
<td>James Allan</td>
<td>Writer</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>Chas Oliphant</td>
<td>Writer</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>George Lawson</td>
<td>Merchant</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Richard</td>
<td>Douglas</td>
<td>Agnes </td>
<td>Murray</td>
<td></td>
<td>Helene</td>
<td>1676</td>
<td>Edinburgh</td>
<td></td>
<td>Mr Walter Pringle</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td>Could be son of Alexander D Married Pringle in previous Generation</td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>Mr William Murray</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>Mr John Eliot</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>Mr Hugh Wallace</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Richard</td>
<td>Douglas</td>
<td>Agnes </td>
<td>Murray</td>
<td></td>
<td>Archibald</td>
<td>1677</td>
<td>Edinburgh</td>
<td></td>
<td>Sir William Benett</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>Thomas Douglas</td>
<td>Merchant</td>
<td>Of Cavers?</td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>Mr William Murray</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>Mr David Dunmuir</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>Mr Walter Pringle</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td>Could be son of Alexander D Married Pringle in previous Generation</td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>Mr Robert Benett</td>
<td>Advocate </td>
<td>Assoc Thomas Douglas</td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Richard </td>
<td>Douglas</td>
<td>Elizabeth</td>
<td>Douglas</td>
<td></td>
<td>John</td>
<td>1680</td>
<td>Edinburgh</td>
<td></td>
<td>David Dunmuir</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>Mr Walter Pringle</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td>Could be son of Alexander D Married Pringle in previous Generation</td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>James Allan</td>
<td>WS</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>George Lawson</td>
<td>Merchant</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Richard </td>
<td>Douglas</td>
<td>Elizabeth</td>
<td>Douglas</td>
<td></td>
<td>Elizabeth</td>
<td>1682</td>
<td>Edinburgh</td>
<td></td>
<td>Thomas Douglas</td>
<td>Late Baillie</td>
<td>Of Cavers?</td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>Harie Douglas </td>
<td>Writer</td>
<td>Association Alexander D and Magdalen Murray</td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>David Dunmuir</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>James Allan</td>
<td>WS</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>George Lawson</td>
<td>Merchant</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Richard </td>
<td>Douglas</td>
<td>Elizabeth</td>
<td>Douglas</td>
<td></td>
<td>Mary</td>
<td>1686</td>
<td>Edinburgh</td>
<td></td>
<td>David Dunmuir</td>
<td>Advocate</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>Mr Robert Benett</td>
<td>Advocate </td>
<td>Assoc Thomas Douglas</td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>James Allan of Dewar</td>
<td>WS</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>John Campbell of Succoth</td>
<td>WS</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>George Lawson</td>
<td>Merchant</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>Henry Douglas</td>
<td>WS?</td>
<td>Prob Harie Douglas</td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td>Richard </td>
<td>Douglas</td>
<td>Elizabeth</td>
<td>Douglas</td>
<td></td>
<td>Joanett</td>
<td>1690</td>
<td>Edinburgh</td>
<td></td>
<td>Sir Archibald Murray of Blackbarony</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>Sir Hugh Paterson of B?</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr><td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
<td>Henry Douglas </td>
<td>Writer</td>
<td>Prob Harie Douglas</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p></p>
<p> </p> William
In the course of c…tag:douglashistory.ning.com,2021-04-22:3482022:Comment:1529042021-04-22T10:28:57.278ZJames Izatthttps://douglashistory.ning.com/profile/JamesIzatt716
<p></p>
<p>William</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In the course of chasing up some minor issues – of which more below, I came across a reference to a Pittendreich after noting that there could be some confusion between two -places of that name in Moray and Midlothian.</p>
<p>I seem to have come across another same name place in Fife referred to in a retour for Robert Earl of Morton in 1649 – I think around the Loch Leven area. This land seems to have passed in the late 17<sup>th</sup> Century to Bruce of…</p>
<p></p>
<p>William</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In the course of chasing up some minor issues – of which more below, I came across a reference to a Pittendreich after noting that there could be some confusion between two -places of that name in Moray and Midlothian.</p>
<p>I seem to have come across another same name place in Fife referred to in a retour for Robert Earl of Morton in 1649 – I think around the Loch Leven area. This land seems to have passed in the late 17<sup>th</sup> Century to Bruce of Kinross – which I take to be Sir William Bruce the architect. The papers referred to below are held by the SRO in the Bruce of Kinross archive.</p>
<p>The retour refers to Terris de Pittendreich which seems straightforward enough</p>
<p>Then following on from that some legal papers</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1663</p>
<p>Decree pf poinding by the sheriff at the instance of Alexander Goldman and Anna Douglas against James Scot etc …. Proprietor of the Lands of Pittendreich</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1667</p>
<p>Disposition and assignation by George Goldman brother of the deceased Alexander Goldman brother in law Anna Douglas his sister in Law of the annual rent contained in GD29/754</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1670</p>
<p>Disposition and assignation by Anna Douglas to Harry (Harie) Douglas writer in Edinburgh –</p>
<p> </p>
<p>GD 29/754</p>
<p>A cross reference to GD/1348 relating to a heritable bond by John Hynd to Alexander Goldman (Coldman Golman, Gouldman, Godsman) and Anna Douglas in respect of the Lands of Pittendreich</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1650 -1684</p>
<p>I have had a look and I cannot find a record of the Goldman/Douglas marriage but they did have a son John born in 1650 in Kirkcaldy. Anna Douglas died in 1684 in Edinburgh</p>
<p>By the way the Goldman name is spelt in a number of ways so I could be missing something but from the look of it he was the son of a Goldman, burgess in Dundee.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So to summarise we seem to have property passing to a Harry Douglas writer in Edinburgh who seems to have some role in Collection of Crown rents – including Orkney where the record shows quite a lot of political action involving the Morton family at the time.</p>
<p>In turn, to bring it back to what was my starting point I think this is probably the Harry Douglas wo was witness to the birth of a son James to Alexander Douglas and Magdalene Murray in 1670.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>That was two years after the birth of a daughter Anna in 1668 who was the second daughter. Yes I know that the naming tradition is not 100% but under the usual rules that would imply some sort of connection on the paternal side. Amelia by contrast is a name normally associated with the Murray family.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>All straws in the wind of course but I recollect from work done by others on the Cockpen Douglass family that there could have been a Fife connection through the Ramsay family which in turn links to Dalhousie</p>
<p></p> William
Thanks for the repl…tag:douglashistory.ning.com,2021-04-17:3482022:Comment:1530622021-04-17T21:30:48.987ZJames Izatthttps://douglashistory.ning.com/profile/JamesIzatt716
<p>William </p>
<p></p>
<p>Thanks for the reply. Not quite sure what to make of the Thomas reference but it appears at the same time as a John Douglas which might be 'my' John Douglas. There could even be something in the Ker archive.</p>
<p>After all you generally find that people in that position had an interest or connection with the main family </p>
<p></p>
<p>It may be one of these fragments of information which could be useful at some point,</p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p>William </p>
<p></p>
<p>Thanks for the reply. Not quite sure what to make of the Thomas reference but it appears at the same time as a John Douglas which might be 'my' John Douglas. There could even be something in the Ker archive.</p>
<p>After all you generally find that people in that position had an interest or connection with the main family </p>
<p></p>
<p>It may be one of these fragments of information which could be useful at some point,</p>
<p></p>
<p></p> I think that I may have had a…tag:douglashistory.ning.com,2021-04-17:3482022:Comment:1529632021-04-17T19:41:15.292ZWilliam Douglashttps://douglashistory.ning.com/profile/WilliamDouglas
<p>I think that I may have had an email enquiry about <span>Thomas Douglas Chamberlain to the Earl of Lothian some years ago, but cannot turn it up now.</span></p>
<p><span>So, lets call it new information!</span></p>
<p>I think that I may have had an email enquiry about <span>Thomas Douglas Chamberlain to the Earl of Lothian some years ago, but cannot turn it up now.</span></p>
<p><span>So, lets call it new information!</span></p> William.
I have not managed…tag:douglashistory.ning.com,2021-04-16:3482022:Comment:1529002021-04-16T19:24:03.424ZJames Izatthttps://douglashistory.ning.com/profile/JamesIzatt716
<p>William.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I have not managed to find out much more about Magdalen Murray wife of Alexander apart from her burial record in Edinburgh 1708.</p>
<p></p>
<p>My skills are not up to editing it but you can see as relict of Alexander D Writer</p>
<p>It is a bit difficult to read but I think it ,means she was interred in a plot reserved for the Murray family</p>
<p>- maybe in Greyfriars because that is where Thomas of Gledoig is meant to rest, Certainly Edinburgh</p>
<p></p>
<p>One…</p>
<p>William.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I have not managed to find out much more about Magdalen Murray wife of Alexander apart from her burial record in Edinburgh 1708.</p>
<p></p>
<p>My skills are not up to editing it but you can see as relict of Alexander D Writer</p>
<p>It is a bit difficult to read but I think it ,means she was interred in a plot reserved for the Murray family</p>
<p>- maybe in Greyfriars because that is where Thomas of Gledoig is meant to rest, Certainly Edinburgh</p>
<p></p>
<p>One other small point I did come across a reference to a Thomas Douglas Chamberlain to the Earl of Lothian in the parish records around 1650 -1665. I just wondered if that was new information.</p>
<p></p>
<p>The point of the entry was that he was making a gift of money. </p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p><a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/8802238862?profile=original" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><img src="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/8802238862?profile=RESIZE_710x" class="align-full"/></a></p>
<p></p>
<p> </p>