A researcher has been commissioned to attmpt to identify William douglas's background and ancestry. Details here>>>

As the research begins (or continues), keep in mind that there are three of us (Me - Bruce descended from John 1695 Middleborough MA, William descended from Thomas 1734 of New Fairfield CT and Stephen descended from Major Samuel 1754 of New York) who are closely related to William 1610 of New London through his brother, uncle, great uncle or whatever. The DNA is close enough to be a brother who did not emigrate or likewise an uncle. An John of Middleborough MA came from somewhere near London. Hopefully these facts can aid anyone researching William and Anne.

Ah Ha! I was just looking over Betsey's response noting the witnesses for the will. How about Simon Tuttle born abt 1560 in Ringstead, Northampton married to Isabell Wells, daughter of John Wells, born about 1565 also in Ringstead and died after 1635, He was the son of Richard Tottill born abt 1530 in Woodford, Northampton and died march 11, 1589 in  Woodford. He was married Elizabeth. Simon's son John was born abt 1596 and died 12/30/1656 in Carrickfergus Ireland and he was married to Joan Antrobus born abt 1588 in St. Albans, Herfordshire. This is part of my line that descends to the Kennards and Varneys of Windham Maine. Now I don't have a Thomas Robinson but I do have a William Robinson born 1/9/1615 in England and died 7/6/1668 in Dorcester MA married to Margaret Beach born abt 1618 in Kent and died in Dorcester MA. William could be the son of Thomas, Williams' mother was Agnes Street born abt 1593.---everyone seems to be located near each other.  The Robinsons are on my mothers side who connect to the Parlin's and then the Bradbury's of Maine. Maybe some of this helps if the signators can be found.

Bruce

We have worked on the Tuttle's a bit.  Simon died in Ringstead, Northants June 15 1630 but his wife and some children came to America and his son John settled in Ipswich, Bay colony in 1635.  Apparently John went to Carrickfergus by 1654 to purchase land for colonists who had  tired of the New World and d there in 1656.  Ipswich is, of course, one of William Douglas' homes when he came from England in 1640.  It is tempting to think one reason William settled in Ipswich was because his wife's family friend was there.  Some Tuttle children are registered in the earliest Ipswich birth records. I can't tell you anything about the Robinsons, but solid information about the Tuttle's is fairly easy to discover.

Betsey

Betsey, Regarding the Robinsons, I have the line from William and Margaret Beach but I don't know if Thomas is the father. My line from William is followed by 4 generations of Increase Robinson. It does seem that there are a lot of coincidences.

I've been trying to find a verifiable source for the dob for William Douglas which is usually given as "1610" (based on the Douglas Genealogy by Charles Henry James Douglas pub 1879) or more specifically Aug 9 1610.  There are some other dates online, but the August 9th date is by far the most used.  Where did it come from?   The earliest place I have so far found it is in a query by Douglas Merritt published in "Notes and Queries", 1913, Vol 127, p 368.  This can be found in a snippet view on Google Books.   The journal, which seems to collect queries from other publications and publish them a few times a year, is put out by Oxford Press with William White, editor.  I would like to see the whole query hoping that Mr Merritt or the editor gave a source.  Can anyone find it?   If you have a verifiable source for William's birth as Aug 9 1610, we'd all like to hear about it.

Betsey

A chart showing how descendants of William migrated to other states and to Canada - not a good cut and paste job, but interesting.

Hello everyone.  I am new to this forum.  I am a descendent of Deacon William Douglas (1610).  My lineage is as follows:

1.  Robert C Douglas (1940 - present)

2.  Raymond R Douglas (1902-1966)

3. Charles L Douglas (1865 - 1932)

4. Edward Douglas (1820 - 1888)

5.  Amos Douglas (1779 - 1857)

6. William Douglas (1743 - 1811)

7. Asa Douglas ((1715 - 1792)

8. Deacon William Douglas (1672 - 1719)

9. William Douglas (1645 - 1725)

10. Deacon William Douglas (1610-1682)

Jamais Arrière!

William's daughter, Anne seems to have married three times. One of these was to a William Keeney (various spellings, and not always William).

Researching Douglases (also of various spellings) in Kings Lynn, Norfolk, England, I came across the theory that Anne married Sir Thomas Kinne Baronet of King's Lynn, County Norfolk.

'Sir' Thomas is said to have been knighted by the King in 1618, for "signal services rendered to the English government". He fled to Holland to escape from religious persecution. In 1625, he came to America, just five years after the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock. However, there is no such baronetcy.

It is also suggested by others that Anne married one of Thomas's children.

Happy New Year!  I'm a Spencer but have Wm Douglas (1610) as an ancestor.  I just posted a tree diagram derived from the Douglas Y-DNA project.  You will know that DNA breaks the direct Scottish parentage for William, but you may be interested that a rough estimate of when we have a common ancestor with another Douglas line (that has DNA data) could go back about 30 generations -- far beyond the 10 generations of his American descendants.

Douglas Hollow is located in Wyoming County, Pennsylvania. It was settled by members of the Douglas family. 

One of the local graveyards is known as the

Douglas Family Plot

Located on Richard S. Stark Farm by the pond, 1/2 mile up the dirt road.

Turn right off the Forkston to Lovelton road. Turn up road at the Dana Hulbirt Farm.

DOUGLAS, Clinton Albert, son of Isaac and Mary, d: 1843/53 5m

DOUGLAS, Lillie, dau. of A. and N., d: 18 Aug 1872 2y 1m 28d

DOUGLAS, Polly A. Kasson, wife of E. C., d: 10 July 1885 27y; Little Freddit, son, d: 21/27 (No Month or Year)

DOUGLAS, William, d: 18 Jan 1880 86y 6m

DOUGLAS, William Davis, son of William and Clarinda, d: 8 Aug 1847 6y 3m

DOUGLAS, William H., son of (No Name), d: 1840

KASSON, Polly A., See Polly A. Kasson Douglas

William, who married Clarinda, is a descendant of William Douglas, b1610.

Hi, I am new. I have been looking for information about Elizabeth Douglas born 1677, granddaughter of Deacon William, by his son Robert and Mary Hempstead. The Elizabeth Douglas I am looking for married first Stephen DeWolfe 1679 - 1711, they had two children Gidion and Stephen, she married Henry Howland and indentures her children at the ages of 6 years and 4 years, she then had two more children with Henry Howland,  Elizabeth and Sarah.  I am looking for any records that would prove or disprove this story. In my search came across this record, could this be the baptism for Deacon William Douglas?

FreeReg@Https://Www.Freereg.Org.Uk/Search_records/581896C5e93790eca36c5bee?...

Baptism entry While we have made all efforts to correctly record the information in the original document there may be different interpretations of the written words. If you have access to the original document and believe we have made a mistake you are encouraged to report this to us. Report an Error in this Data

Field
(only fields with a value are shown) Value
County Northamptonshire
Place Easton Maudit
Church name St Peter and St Paul
Register type Unspecified
Baptism date 22 Jul 1609
Person forename William
Person sex M
Father forename William
Mother forename Agnes
Father surname DUGLEYS
Notes Latin entry translated into English
Transcribed by Anna Rufer
Credit Kay Collins
File line number 670

Two comments on postings by Sherry Duty. 

The only husband of Elizabeth Douglas listed in the Douglas Genealogy by Charles Henry James Douglas (available on Google Books) is Henry Rowland (not Howland) on page 63.  However, another book on the DeWolfe family, "Dolphs and De Wolffs" by Carol Maginnis, in which I found a snippet that suggests that she did indeed marry a DeWolfe before Rowland, should be examined.  I can't see the whole entry, but a number of libraries have copies.  Email me at wwhough@gmail.com if you can't locate a copy,

The William Dugleys found in the baptismal records of Easton Maudit may very well be our William Douglas.  There was a substantial effort about 9 years ago to look for a marriage record between a William and Ann Motley in parishes in Northamptonshire.  See the letter from Ed Douglas on this site dated Mar 3, 2012.  To my knowledge, none has been found but more and more records are being transcribed.  Don't know if anyone has revived that study in the last few years.  Ed might also comment on Sherry's posting.

I have Elizabeth Douglas (b. 1677) in my database.  The entry is probably based on CHJ Douglas' tome on the Connecticut Douglases.  Only one marriage to Henry ROWLAND is shown as William Hough reports.  The date of marriage appears to be 25 Nov 1703, possibly in Lyme, CT.  She died Aft 14 Jul 1715.  I have no other notes about her and if there were any in CHJD, I would have copied and pasted them into my database.  No Find-a-Grave information.

I don't have a copy of Carol Maginnis book.

In our search through the Northamptonshire public records, I believe we were looking for Douglases pretty intently.  Whether we searched for alternative surname spellings, I am not certain.  Betsey Howes would be the best person to ask about this.  I will do so.

William Hough is correct:  our search failed to find any record of William Douglas, b. abt 1609 in the Northamptonshire public records.

FreeReg a few years back was turning up many Douglases in Northamptonshire and neighboring counties.  But not a "William Douglas."  Is the FreeReg work continuing?  Have they found more Douglases?  Were they searching on alternative spellings of "Douglas" besides Dugleys?  Betsey Howes was tracking the FreeReg work for us back 10 years ago.  I  will ask her if she has been continuing to follow this effort.

I will ask Julie Hornung if she is familiar with the Carol Maginnis book or if she can access it.

Does anyone have Wallace Barton Wallace (September 21, 1852 – December 9, 1930) in their family?  He was a lawyer, jurist, and politician.

His biography states that his ancestors were 'Sir William Douglas and wife, who was a Miss Ringstad'.

It seems to me that they are more likely Deacon William Douglas, born 1610, and his wife Ann Mattle, daughter of Thomas Mattle of Ringstead, England.  

Further comment on Sherry Duty's post.

Sherry, your first post is accurate.  Elizabeth Douglass indeed had two husbands and two children by each that you correctly name.  The second husband was Henry Roland, not Howland, and I found 11 different spellings of this surname in my search, all beginning with "R".  I spent a couple of hours with the Carol Maginnis "de Wolf" book (2 volumes) in the library, and am extremely impressed with her work.  She lists a number of sources: vital records, land records, church records, orphan's court records, and probate records for New London, Lyme, and New London County, Connecticut. You could duplicate her work by examining records in courthouses in Connecticut or on microfilm at the LDS Family History Center in Salt Lake City.  I am not going to try.  A lot of the dates she gives are derived, meaning you can bracket for example a marriage between the last child of one mother to the date of an indenture by the step mother.  I might derive a broader window in some cases, but her derivations are all reasonable.

WorldCat lists the libraries that hold the Mcginnis book.  Search for the author "Carol Maginnis" and at least one of the results should give you a list with lots of public libraries.  Or you can email me at wwhough@gmail.com and I can give you more info on what I found in my search.

William, the first line of the biography and your post should have said Wallace Barton Douglas.  I didn't have him but had his father and mother in my database.  I now have him.  He is indeed a descendant of Deacon William Douglas, born 1610, and his wife Ann Mattle.  His line back is Asahel M. (1814), Israel Jr. (1769), Israel (1742), John (1701), William (1666), Robert (1639, William (~1610).  I also descend from Israel Jr. in this line.  There were a lot of Douglass cousins who went to Leyden, New York around 1800.

William W. Hough, Thanks so much for your reply

The information did come from messages found on line from Carol Maginnis but not confirmation by records. So, I was not sure, I have not been able to find her book as it is not in print and Carol has passed so cannot contact her. Did your perusal have information about her sons, Gideon and Stephen and their indenture at such a young age? I will probably not be searching in the Conneticut Records unless I can find them on line.  I do have Henry Rowland for her husband, but do come up crossing Roland and with Howland as I have a few of those also, with all the second, third and even a few fourth marriages,  it seems early New Englander were all related. Gideon (Born Dewolfe/ died Deolph) is my 7th great grandfather. Thankyou for all you help and the confirmation.

Sherry Paul Duty

I can put a bit more detail to the brick wall that surrounds Deacon Wm Douglas.   First, I found that kit #N11063 has done BigY DNA testing and is clearly among the Y lineage descendants of Deacon Douglas.  So I pasted N11063's Y111 STR data into two very large FTDNA projects:  ScottishDNA and EnglandGB, each > 5000 members.  As shown above, in both cases there are no common ancestors for N11063 (aside from #156809, another known Douglas) back at least 30-40 generations.  At 30 generations we have a hint with ancestors Benjamin Wright and Edward Terrill -- those are both worth investigating though both are at the limit of surname origins.  In the Scottish dataset there is nothing to 40 generations, far before surnames and any clan history.  This is not proof, but given the size of these projects and predilection for Scots to do DNA testing, it does suggest that the brick wall for Deacon Douglas is substantial --- specifically, this rules out an easy case of missing a Scots connection by just one or two generations to a large clan.   In addition, I noticed in the Big Tree that R-BY13790 (the terminal SNP for Deacon Douglas) that there is only one Douglas and several surnames Fox, so I also checked N11063's STRs against the Fox surname data -- with the same result:  no common ancestor within ~40 generations.

I found on Find A Grave born about 1572, wife must have

been Elizabeth, three children also that must have died

young. 

William Douglasse
Birth unknown
Death Nov 1654
Northamptonshire, England
Burial
St Peter and St Paul Churchyard
Easton Maudit, Wellingborough Borough, Northamptonshire, England
Memorial ID 199779943 ·

Buried on 21st November 1654
Aged about 82 years

Created by: Debbie
Added: 5 Jun 2019
Find A Grave Memorial 199779943

Found on Find A Grave
With three of his children, son John's Memorial
states mother's name Elizabeth ?
William Douglasse
Birth unknown
Death Nov 1654
Northamptonshire, England
Burial
St Peter and St Paul Churchyard
Easton Maudit, Wellingborough Borough, Northamptonshire, England
Memorial ID 199779943 ·

Buried on 21st November 1654
Aged about 82 years

Created by: Debbie
Added: 5 Jun 2019
Find A Grave Memorial 199779943

William Dugleys
Birth unknown
Death Jun 1616
Northamptonshire, England
Burial
St Peter and St Paul Churchyard
Easton Maudit, Wellingborough Borough, Northamptonshire, England
Memorial ID 199697380 · View Source

Buried on 12th June 1616
Senior, wool man

Created by: Debbie
Added: 3 Jun 2019
Find A Grave Memorial 199697380

Elizabeth Dugleys
Birth unknown
Death Jul 1615
Northamptonshire, England
Burial
St Peter and St Paul Churchyard
Easton Maudit, Wellingborough Borough, Northamptonshire, England
Memorial ID 199697039 · View Source

Buried on 2nd July 1615
Wife of William, senior
Created by: Debbie
Added: 3 Jun 2019
Find A Grave Memorial 199697039

Sherry, the find-a-grave posting you found for William Douglasse, died Nov 1654, is the father of the William baptized in 1609 in Easton Maudit who we hoped was our immigrant ancestor.  In 2011, several American descendants of the immigrant William and Ann Motley hired a genealogist in Northamptonshire to see what she could find on this family.  The report this genealogist produced is attached to the "Letter from Ed Douglass" that you can find it this group's "Discussion Forum."  While we certainly can't absoutely rule out this possibility, the English genealogist cast serious doubt on it because of another William Douglas in London in 1645 (~5 years after our WIlliam left for America) who was involved in an Easton Maudit land transaction that also included one of the other sons, Thomas, of the guy who died in 1654.  If you haven't already, suggest you read the Sue Comont report 1 attached to Ed's letter in the above Discussion Forum.  I remember that we were going to try to pursue hiring a London genealogist to see if our WIlliam who was in London before sailing to America left any clues as to his origin.  That never happened.

I have uploaded files relevant to the BigY test, and to William Douglas, b1610 in the Douglas DNA section of the Archives. See here>>> and look for items 41 and 42.

Just a few notes on Bill Hough's post on BigY results. The Douglas project STR data has a very tight group for the descendants of Deacon William Douglas 1610, with tMRCA about 10 generations ago and no other Douglas connections back to ~400 CE (long before surnames). In the R-U106 project, this Douglas line's nearest connections have surname Terrill and common ancestor ~1000 CE. Other surnames in the clade are Timmins, Timmons, and Wright, common ancestry ca 800 CE. These names give no real clue because they are found all over the British Isles with little overlap. On the SNP side, the 10 men in the FTDNA haplotree with R-Y62502 cite Irish, Norwegian, German, and UK ancestry; none has attached his surname (a real shame). Note the absence of Scottish ancestry which persists to its parent SNP R-BY13790, formed ~200 BCE, i.e. when the descendants of R-U106 were still in northern Europe, 700 years before the Anglo-Saxon invasions (the route that brought most R-U106 to Britain). In general, British R-U106 descendants are centered in mid- and eastern England. In other words, it's pretty unlikely that this Douglas line has any Scottish ancestry.

--That's not what his descendants want to hear, Robin, but I think that you might well be correct.  Ed

Thank you for your comments about the Douglass yDNA results.  I had long suspected that my William Douglass 1610 was not really from Scotland, but from England. The majority of immigrants who migrated to New England before 1640 were from England.  My research shows that almost all of my ancestors (nearly 3/4 of my tree!) before 1640 were from England.  My few Huguenots (via England and Channel Islands), Scots and Irish came a bit later, around 1650 or so (especially after (esp. after Cromwell government was established).  So I'm not surprised about this conclusion that William Douglass was not really Scottish.   

Deacon Wm Douglas's religion is also suggestive:  he was a Puritan, a member of the First Church of Boston -- not a Presbyterian.  This also makes him more likely to have been from East Anglia rather than Scotland.

True, he was a Puritan, with Calvinistic roots. That's a very good point. Presbyterian churches came later when the Scots and Irish-Scots who migrated a bit later to New England, New York State, and New Jersey. My Puritan ancestors were from all over England, not just East Anglia.  This link https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2e/7c/4b/2e7c4bf30370753e29af3e2b90e...  gives a small glimpse of the Mayflower passengers' English towns. 

William Douglass supposedly married his wife Ann in Ringstead, England - Ringstead, Norfolk, England which is in East Anglia or Ringstead, Northamptonshire, England in central England?  Did anyone actually find old records on Douglas family or they don't exist anymore?  Thank you!  

Pilgrims (i.e. Mayflower) were not the same as Puritans.  Puritans origins were strongly in East Anglia:  see Fischer, Albion's Seed, map p 32 and quote p 31: "A circle drawn around the town of Haverhill [Suffolk] with a radius of 60 miles will circumscribe the area from which most New England families came." 

Right, Pilgrims are not same as Puritans.  Thank you for pointing out this map, I had not seen this before.  So, you'd say that Deacon William Douglass was most likely from somewhere around Ringstead, Norfolk, England?  

Y DNA and religion suggest not Scottish and most likely from East Anglia.   Greater precision would have to rely on paper genealogy. Ringstead is about 50 miles from Haverhill, Fischer's center-point, a good day's horse ride, and if there's reason to expect a paper trail there it would be worth investigating.

We have always believed that William Douglas' wife Anne was from the Ringstead in Northamptonshire, not the one in Norfolk.  There are parish baptism records for two older brothers there, but not Anne.  The real evidence is the documented testimony of Anne given when she was in her 60s in New England as sole living heir of Thomas Mattle of Ringstead, Northamptonshire.  This testimony is covered extensively in the Douglas genealogy by Charles Henry James Douglas, viewable on Google Books, pages 60 and 515-517.  

A lot of searches for William, including his marriage to Anne, in parish records of Northamptionshire have been unsuccessful.  But there are baptism records for three children born to them before they sailed for America, all in London:

Anne: Baptized June 12, 1636 at St Mary Bothaw, London, London, England, father Willia Dowglasse.

Elizabeth: Christened at St. Mary Whitechapel, Stepney, London, England November 29, 1637, father William Dowglas, mother Anne. Elizabeth died in March 1639/40 and is buried "Elizabeth Dowglasse" on March 12, 1639/40, same church.

Robert: Christened at St. Mary Whitechapel, Stepney, London, England March 6, 1638 (1639), father William Dowglasse, mother Anne. (Stepney is now Tower Hamlets).  

William, Anne, Anne Jr. and Robert sailed for America a year after Robert was born.  

The two parishes where the three children were baptized were Church of England parishes.  I haven't found a marriage record for William and Anne in London.  

That pretty much nails it -- Ringstead Northamptonshire is 50 mi from Haverhill, closer than Ringstead Norfolk -- in other words the two Ringsteads are both well within the general area from which the Puritans emigrated.  So his wife's paper trail, complete lack of Scottish Y DNA and plausible English Y DNA, plus Puritan religion, make a good case for Deacon Douglas's English origin.