I seem to recognise the partial tree from Ancestry that you have posted - it corresponds with the Familysearch tree that existed about 1.5 years ago. Sorry to put a dampener on your genealogical journey but unfortunately, I think there is no real documentary evidence to underpin the relationships it shows:
Thomas Douglas (Drysdale) 1448 - the only source that indicates his existence is the 1503 document itself, the one that you posted previously, in any case according to that document, he was dead (1503) when the Douglas brothers changed their name so he couldn't be a Drysdale then anyway. James Douglas (Drysdale) 1478-1546 - the only source that indicates this persons existence is the Will & Testament of James Drysdale dated 1546 - this will indicates that James' father was still alive in 1546 (& if this had been Thomas Douglas then he would have been 98 years old) Sir A. Douglas (Drysdale) 1545-1600 - there are no sources that indicate this person existed, however there is one A. Drysdale of that era who may have been referred to as 'Sir', as clergy were during those times - 1560-1599 - Alexander Drysdaill, Maister, Vicar of Lany, servitor to the Maistre of Requeistis & husband of Isobel Menteith. Lady C. Donaldson 1550-1580 - there are no sources that indicate this person existed, however there is one Margaret Donaldson, circa 1525-1580, who had a child with James Drysdale of Lochleven in 1565. Achilles Drysdale 1570s-1600s - There was an Achilles Drysdale, born about 1560, who married Violet Horne circa 1595 but there are no records that show who his parents were.
Again, I apologise for putting a dampener on things, but I still think your mother was 100% correct - I myself am certain of the link between Douglas & Drysdale, I'm just not yet convinced that the '1503 story' lays down that link in a factual way.
I've copied your document and was quite interested to see that it differs slightly from the other three "1503 documents" that have been circulating online for some time now. From the wording of your document it would appear that in 1875, Thomas Drysdale Gillespie copied a document that differed slightly from that published in 1863 in The Dunfermline Press (copy below):
Unfortunately, we are still waiting to find an earlier hand written copy of this document (in old Scots) that would help to prove the veracity of this story.
As you may guess, there is some controversy regarding the authenticity of this story & I (and many others) have been doing quite a bit of research to find supporting material that would reveal the truth of this story one way or another.
There is a thread on the Rootschat website that deals specifically with this topic which you may find of interest:
You mention that you've had a DNA test and that this confirms a link to Douglas (or just to Scotland?) because if it does show a direct link to Douglas then this could add significant weight to the 1503 story (this topic - DNA - is also mentioned in the Rootschat forum above).
You also mention a family line back to Thomas Douglas (Drysdale) 1448 - I work on the Familysearch website and have the Drysdale family line starting in 1410:
- Mr Drysdale - Male 1410-Deceased • G2S7-JYJ
and this line leads to virtually all 'Drysdales' today
There is also a Thomas Douglas (1448) in this Familysearch tree:
- Thomas Douglas - Male 1448 – Deceased • MP4C-15Y
unfortunately I have not been able to link this Thomas Douglas with the Drysdale family line and it fizzles out after: - John Douglas Drysdale - Male 1520 – Deceased • GGKX-SG2
Perhaps you could tell me what links you have up to (say) 1600? - is this on Ancestry? because normally they just copy Familysearch.
Ronald Drysdale seems to be researching '1448 - Thomas Douglas of Dryfesdale', so you might like to link up? Note also that there are a couple of Drysdale groups where you can join to share research.
The more information you can give about the people you mention, the more chance there is of someone else connecting with your family.
Dates and places of births, deaths and marriages all help to place families.
Professions also help.
'My great-grandmother mother was a Douglas from Montrose' does not give many clues to follow up! But a bit of flesh on the bones makes further research possible. But if we are told who she married, what his profession was and where the children were baptised, then we can get to work.
Maybe it is time to update the information in your profile?
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I wondered with the tone of that email. What an odd thing to use for a scam though.
Hi Pauline.
I have recently come across a publication that contains an article which may be of interest to you:
The Dollar Magazine March, 1909 (Vol. viii., No. 29).
This publication contains an article titled "The Drysdales of Dollar and their Dumfriesshire Origin" by R. Paul (1909)The%20Dollar%20Magazine%20March%201909%20Vol%20viii%20No.%2029%20%20-%20article%20entitled%20The%20Drysdales%20of%20Dollar%20and%20their%20Dumfriesshire%20Origin%20by%20R%20Paul-compressed%20%281%29.pdf
I have enclosed the magazine as an attachment.
Best regards
Ron
Hi again Pauline,
I seem to recognise the partial tree from Ancestry that you have posted - it corresponds with the Familysearch tree that existed about 1.5 years ago. Sorry to put a dampener on your genealogical journey but unfortunately, I think there is no real documentary evidence to underpin the relationships it shows:
Thomas Douglas (Drysdale) 1448 - the only source that indicates his existence is the 1503 document itself, the one that you posted previously, in any case according to that document, he was dead (1503) when the Douglas brothers changed their name so he couldn't be a Drysdale then anyway.
James Douglas (Drysdale) 1478-1546 - the only source that indicates this persons existence is the Will & Testament of James Drysdale dated 1546 - this will indicates that James' father was still alive in 1546 (& if this had been Thomas Douglas then he would have been 98 years old)
Sir A. Douglas (Drysdale) 1545-1600 - there are no sources that indicate this person existed, however there is one A. Drysdale of that era who may have been referred to as 'Sir', as clergy were during those times - 1560-1599 - Alexander Drysdaill, Maister, Vicar of Lany, servitor to the Maistre of Requeistis & husband of Isobel Menteith.
Lady C. Donaldson 1550-1580 - there are no sources that indicate this person existed, however there is one Margaret Donaldson, circa 1525-1580, who had a child with James Drysdale of Lochleven in 1565.
Achilles Drysdale 1570s-1600s - There was an Achilles Drysdale, born about 1560, who married Violet Horne circa 1595 but there are no records that show who his parents were.
Again, I apologise for putting a dampener on things, but I still think your mother was 100% correct - I myself am certain of the link between Douglas & Drysdale, I'm just not yet convinced that the '1503 story' lays down that link in a factual way.
Best Regards
Ron
Hi Pauline, welcome to the Douglas website.
I've copied your document and was quite interested to see that it differs slightly from the other three "1503 documents" that have been circulating online for some time now. From the wording of your document it would appear that in 1875, Thomas Drysdale Gillespie copied a document that differed slightly from that published in 1863 in The Dunfermline Press (copy below):
Unfortunately, we are still waiting to find an earlier hand written copy of this document (in old Scots) that would help to prove the veracity of this story.
As you may guess, there is some controversy regarding the authenticity of this story & I (and many others) have been doing quite a bit of research to find supporting material that would reveal the truth of this story one way or another.
There is a thread on the Rootschat website that deals specifically with this topic which you may find of interest:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=676961.0
You mention that you've had a DNA test and that this confirms a link to Douglas (or just to Scotland?) because if it does show a direct link to Douglas then this could add significant weight to the 1503 story (this topic - DNA - is also mentioned in the Rootschat forum above).
You also mention a family line back to Thomas Douglas (Drysdale) 1448 - I work on the Familysearch website and have the Drysdale family line starting in 1410:
- Mr Drysdale - Male 1410-Deceased • G2S7-JYJ
and this line leads to virtually all 'Drysdales' today
There is also a Thomas Douglas (1448) in this Familysearch tree:
- Thomas Douglas - Male 1448 – Deceased • MP4C-15Y
unfortunately I have not been able to link this Thomas Douglas with the Drysdale family line and it fizzles out after:
- John Douglas Drysdale - Male 1520 – Deceased • GGKX-SG2
Perhaps you could tell me what links you have up to (say) 1600? - is this on Ancestry? because normally they just copy Familysearch.
Anyway that's all for now.
Welcome once again to the Douglas webforum
Best regards
Ron
Ronald Drysdale seems to be researching '1448 - Thomas Douglas of Dryfesdale', so you might like to link up?
Note also that there are a couple of Drysdale groups where you can join to share research.
Welcome, Pauline
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Making conections
The more information you can give about the people you mention, the more chance there is of someone else connecting with your family.
Dates and places of births, deaths and marriages all help to place families.
Professions also help.
'My great-grandmother mother was a Douglas from Montrose' does not give many clues to follow up! But a bit of flesh on the bones makes further research possible. But if we are told who she married, what his profession was and where the children were baptised, then we can get to work.
Maybe it is time to update the information in your profile?
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