Joan Douglas

[Sheila Mitchell]

There is quite a mystery surrounding the parentage of Joan Douglas (de Douglas) who married William Dacre, 5th Lord Dacre.

Three Douglas men have been suggested as possible candidates for the father of this illegitimate daughter.

We know that her daughter Joan Dacre died after 1446 and her son, Sir Richard Musgrave was born in 1415.  I would therefore surmise that she was born sometime before 1380.

In one publication Joan Douglas who married William Dacre is mentioned as being the daughter of 'The Earl of Douglas' but it didn't say which one and in another 'A general and heraldic dictionary of the Peerages of England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales' we are informed that Joane was the daughter of James, Ist Earl Douglas - the first Earl was William!

We must therefore consider which of the Earls was alive at the crucial time.

The first contender is William Douglas, Ist Earl Douglas c1330 - 1384 who in 1357 married Margaret sister and heir of Thomas, Earl of Mar. He also had a relationship with Margaret Stewart.

The second contender is the 2nd Earl James Douglas c1358 - 1388.  He married Isabella but had no legitimate children.

The final contender is Archibald 'The Grim' the 3rd Earl who was the illegitimate son of Sir James Douglas who died in 1330.  He had both legitimate children and an illegitimate son William who married Joanna Murray.

Joan Douglas's link with the Dacre family was not the first link between the Dacre's and Douglas's as the widow of Sir William Dacre who died in 1353 - Elizabeth nee Maxwell married Hugh Dacre the father of the aforementioned William who married Joan Douglas.  Whilst married to William Douglas they had a daughter Mary.  It is interesting also that the wife of William Dacre is sometimes given as Mary.  The daughter of William and Elizabeth Douglas would have been his half sister so would not have been his wife.

Until we can unravel all the pieces the mystery of Joan's father remains unresolved.

[Sheila Mitchell]

P.S.  It was actually Archibald the 3rd Earl who married Joanna Murray in 1362.

[Stephen Williams]

Thank you for the information!

[William Douglas]

One of my source refers to Joan (of Mar) Douglas, which, if correct, would rule out Archibald as her father.