The Douglas Archives

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At a dead end despite 20 years research on my 3rd G-Grandfather Rev. Charles Douglas (1743-1833) of Dervock, Co. Antrim, whose father is indicated to be a James Douglas of Dervock by the University of Glasgow records (Charles graduated there in 1764). Burke's Landed Gentry of 1855 says Charles is descended from the same Scottish ancestor as the Douglas of Grace Hall family, and if so, that would be Robert Douglass (1665-1733) who had three wives. Lots of family tree descendants from Charles and wife Grace Gamble, but Church of Ireland (he was Bishop of Connor) indicates he also had three wives and I find no records of the other two. Did my Y-DNA and lots of Hamilton ancestors, but very few Douglas ancestors. None of the DNA Douglas matches have posted family trees or respond to emails. Hamilton DNA Project says that I'm an anomaly. Any ideas out there?

Bill

Richard William Maginis Douglas

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Replies to This Discussion

I am not sure that he was a bishop.  I have found no evidence that he was. In 1781, he was a prebendary, a senior member of clergy, normally supported by the revenues from an estate or parish. The position is a type of canon who has a role in the administration of a cathedral. He may have held that position til 1813.

I have a note that he may have been married to a Miss Allen of Lisconnan, Co. Antrim, as well as to Grace Gamble. However, this is probably Anne Allen (1805-90); who married Edmund Alexander Douglas (d. 1846), son of Rev. Charles Douglas, and had issue four sons and one daughter; died 23 February 1890; will proved at Belfast, 27 August 1890 (effects £370); Anne was the daughter of Dr. Samuel Allen, (1778-1835), of Lisconnan

Thanks William. First, need to thank you for the great job you're doing and the fine Douglas tour information you provided for our trip to Scotland and N. Ireland last summer. Second, our general agreement in the past of a likely common Robert Douglas ancestor for Douglas of Dervock and Grace Hall gives me a likely family path back to Scotland if I can just identify James Douglass of Dervock!

I agree that Charles's title may be questionable since I have also found references to both Bishop of Connor and Prebend of Connor, and would like to have discussed that with the current Rector of his church when I visited last summer, but he was on vacation. However, the Rector was the one who provided the Connor Diocese Succession List from the Church of Ireland's records that showed three marriages, including a Miss Allen of Lisconnon, but no dates. Was well aware of his son Edmond's marriage to Anne then, and was told that did not seem to be confused with that marriage. Charles graduated in 1764 and became Curate at Carncastle in 1769, then served at Derrykeighan from 1773-1833. He married a widow, Grace Gamble in 1787 (My 3rd G-Grandmother) who died in 1818, so there were 23 years of time prior to that marriage and 15 years afterwards, certainly possible windows for two other marriages. Another aspect is that the elder Samuel Allen's (1742-1820) daughter Frances (1776-1807) married Archer Bayley (1770-1832) and their daughter Frances Higginson Bayley married Charles Douglas (1791-1871) another of Charles' sons and is my 2nd G-Grandparents. Clearly  a generational family connection with the Allen's.

As in the past, any help in identifying James Douglass of Dervock, or ideas on (with this family line) all the Hamilton DNA would be very appreciated. We are planning another Scotland/N. Ireland trip next year.

Bill

I have known Nick Kingsley for some time, through the web, and look at his blog occasionally. You may have seen this article: http://landedfamilies.blogspot.com/2014/01/100-allen-of-lisconnan-h... but I will be checking it out further to make sure my records are correct.

I have seen it, and the question I would have for Nick is further data on issue of Samuel besides the son, Dr. Allen. My research shows a daughter Frances Higginson Allen who married Arthur Bayley. Name seems correct based on name of Samuel’s wife.
Thanks, Bill

Hi Richard , have you done your Autosomal DNA ? I have a lot of Gamble DNA matches , who also have Douglas , if so do you have a gedmatch number?
 and do you have an ancestry tree you could let me look at ?
and FTDNA is only $59 for autosomal DNA right now
 the Hamilton line came about from Douglas , or is it the other way round William?
 I also have a lot of Hamilton DNA matches

Regards Jackie

Hi Jackie,

Yes I have done Ancestry Autosomal DNA A588257 and my GEDMatch is 6605406.

Our Family tree is on Ancestry as "Douglas". Yes, a Douglas did take the name Hamilton to assume the family estate, Lord William Douglas (1634-1694) and I'm thinking that Robert is likely related to that line.

Bill

Hi Bill, I am a new member. I live in Melbourne, Australia. You match with my late father's Lazarus Gedmatch kit LY585897L1 on chromosome 6 at 13.6cM. Dad's ancestors were Jane Douglas born c1800 married William Hendren about 1825 in Lisburn, Co Antrim. William was in the RUC, as were two of his son. The three sons who emigrated to Australia were James Douglas Hendren, Edward Hendren and William Hendren.

Three sons emigrated to NSW Australia in the 1850s. Two of them were born in Antrim and one in Derry.
DNA matching suggests William and Jane may have been cousins. I have never found a marriage for them. I have been doing lots of DNA research and it now appears that my Douglas were originally from Ayrshire. There is a connection also to Gilmore/Gilmour within both Douglas and Hendren families in Ayrshire and Antrim. A researcher with Gilmore ancestry matches my father on exactly the same segment of chromosome 6 as you do and with 13.6cM, which is VERY interesting for us. Her ancestry is also Ayrshire.

I did find a reference for a Charles Douglas and William Hendren both announcing insolvency in the same news article. Perhaps they were in business together?

So many questions.
Regards Chrissy Fletcher in Melbourne

Hi Chrissy,

Spent a few hours going through Ancestry, FTDNA, and Gedmatch looking for the DNA connection unsuccessfully. I did find your family tree on Ancestry, but you did cover the tree relationship in your message. My 2nd and 3rd G-Grandfather's were named Charles, but I'm not aware of any insolvency cases, although they were both significant land and business owners in the Dervock area. I do have a Granduncle Charles Douglas (1865-1940) who ended up in Queensland, Australia, and am in contact with Douglas cousins there. Maybe you could share the reference news article? Reference Jane, I do have a DNA connection with an Isabella Douglas who married James Hodge about 1839 that I have been unable to find her parents and she could be in the same line as Jane sinc she named her first daughter Jane. Additionally, land records indicate James and Isabella were renting a home from my 2nd G-Aunt Sarah. I do have at least one related Douglas members living in Lisburn in the 1800's, and my 3rd G-Grandmother Grace Gamble's maternal line came from Ayrshire. Lots of guesses is correct, and I'd like to understand the DNA connection!

Thanks, Bill Douglas

Bill, Mea Culpa! It was Samuel Douglass! This is EXACTLY how misinformation spreads, ha ha. Never mind, probably still relevant for you. Chrissy
Hendren & Douglass Insolvent Debtors

“Insolvent Debtors”
The petition of the following debtors are to be heard at Carrickfergus on Mon 22 Feb 1836 –
Samuel Douglass, late of Lisburn, said County, grocer
James Hendren, late of Antrim, said County, formerly a civic bill officer.

(Source: The Northern Whig, pub Belfast, about Feb 12 1836. The British Library)
I have Gedmatch kit numbers if that helps. Also, there is another Douglas tree from another Melbourne researcher which is my line but he has it private on Ancestry. However this is the same line from another tree - not sure about the very early research. Lots of DNA matching to my late father's Lazarus kit from this line, also from another Gilmour researcher. Maybe some of this helps! My father's Lazarus kit is LY585897L1. BTW I have loads and loads of DNA matches to Gamble, seem to connect to Campbell which I'm sure married into Douglas/Gilmore. All a bit confusing eh? Chrissy

Chrissy,

Quick reply as I have couple other items going this evening. I did try matching in Gedmatch to your father's Lazarus kit LY585897L1 and the result was no match with me, which is what I meant by "I'd like to understand the DNA connection!" I do see Gilmour/Gilmore and Campbell matches, but not with Hendren???? My Gamble line to Ayrshire is through the Stirling's - have any of them? I'll look at the Debtor article tomorrow. Thanks, Bill

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Making conections

The more information you can give about the people you mention, the more chance there is of someone else connecting with your family.

Dates and places of births, deaths and marriages all help to place families.

Professions also help.

'My great-grandmother mother was a Douglas from Montrose' does not give many clues to follow up! But a bit of flesh on the bones makes further research possible. But if we are told who she married, what his profession was and where the children were baptised, then we can get to work.

Maybe it is time to update the information in your profile?


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