Douglases in Cockpen - 18th century and before

[Jenny Blain]

Here's some of what I have on the Cockpen Duglass/Douglas people. At William's suggestion I'm putting this in a 'discussion' as there may be pieces that people want to follow up - I've seen several posts exploring this line.

William Duglass and Janet Witherspoon had ten recorded children born between 1695 and 1713. I have the baptism records for several, which show the parents in Dalhousie, in Cockpen parish, with the baptisms mostly recorded in Cockpen, one in Lasswade. Witnesses to baptisms, where I've seen the full record, include a John Witherspoon and one includes a William Duglass, one a George Duglass. In the Cockpen Kirk Session minutes for the 1690s and 1700s, William Duglass is the name of a Session elder, and from 1702 John Witherspoon is also named a session elder. There are various other Douglas and Witherspoon people about, including Margaret Duglass who married William Keddie and had several children - born in Dalhousie, and with baptism witnesses generally including William Duglass and John Witherspoon, two baptisms being in Cockpen, one at Newbattle and the earliest in Carrington.

My speculation is that the witness William Duglass is either father or uncle of both William (married to Janet Witherspoon) and Margaret (married to William Keddie) - possibly more likely an uncle of William, as the name 'William' occurs quite far down William and Janet's children, though there could be other reasons for that. (Sorry about the plethora of Williams in that sentence!) There is a George Duglass in Wester Melwill (Wester Melville in Lasswade) who appears also as a witness in at least one other Cockpen record (a child of John Thomson) and who may be a brother, uncle or cousin of the William marrying Janet W.

Of William and Janet's children, one, James born in 1697, became a tailor in Dalhousie and married May (or Mary) Marjorie Lindsay: my current thinking is that I'm descended from their son Robert (b 1736, Cockpen).

I know that there has been a suggestion that William's father was another William (presumably in that case the session elder) but haven't seen anything to make this more than a speculation.

Thoughts, queries, speculations, additions? I'll quickly add that I've only skimmed part of the Cockpen Kirk Session minutes, having only a short time at NAS in Edinburgh last time I was there. Would love to spend much longer with these.
I'll post some details of the births, from OPR, later.

Jenny

[William Douglas]

Isabel wife of john Knox died November 1664 but more than that I have yet to discover.

[Chris Mallouhi]

I am looking for any mention of two Douglas Xgrandmothers in this area. Sorry I do not have any other information except their names appearing on their childrens' birth certificates.

OPR for Cockpen, Ref 676/1 

1775. Ann lawful Daughter to John Reid and Jean Douglas his spouse was born at

Dalhousie the 13th and baptised the 19th of March 1775 in presence of the

Congregation.

AND Agnes Douglas married Joseph Torrance b1736 in Borthwick and their son Richard was born 1771 Dalhousie. OPR for Cockpen, Ref 676/1
1771. Richard lawful son to Joseph Torrance and Agnes Douglas his spouse was born at
Dalhousie the 21st and baptised the 28th of April 1771 in the face of the congregation.
I assume his father Joseph was the witness for the birth of Richard’s son George in 1793, but it
may have been a brother of Richard’s with the same name.
There is no sign of Joseph Torrance and Agnes Douglas’ marriage but their first child,
Margaret, was born in 1757 in Borthwick. Joseph Torrance’s parents were probably William Torrance and Margaret Brakenridge. OPR for Borthwick, Ref 674/1
1736. Febry 20. Joseph natural son to William Torrance and Margaret Brakenridge was
baptised. Witnesses John Laing and William Brunton.

So I speculate that these Douglas women were connected.  We cannot find marriage or birth certificates for them. Other connecting names:Mc Laren, Wilson, Ferguson

If anyone comes across these connections please get back to me.

[Diane Louise CRENGLE]

hi Jenny

I'm a descendent of Charles, grandson of David Douglas and Marion Ronaldson, from which I have confirming DNA Matches. Charles migrated to NZ with his wife Catherine Kent in 1860 and I live there. David Douglas appears to be the grandson of James Douglas and May/Marjorie Lindsay, through their son Robert Douglas, married to Mary Carse (of the irregular marriage). I think you have James as the second son of William Duglass and his wife Janet Witherspoon. I wanted to let you know I have really appreciated the work you did, a decade ago, as it has helped me establish the social class and occupations of my proven Douglas ancestors. Were there more resolutions about who William Duglass's father might be? Are there more certainties about class and relationships to the earls? 

[Jenny Blain]

Hi Diane,

Thanks for the message, and glad to have been of help. May I ask which DNA test(s) you've done, in case there are matches with any of my closer family?

William's father was David Douglas. There is a series of deeds relating to a piece of land that was transferred to David ('servant' to Lord George Ramsay) then passed to his son William, then (after William died in debt) 'disposed' back to the feudal superior who by that time was William, Earl of Dalhousie.
The first deed was from 1659, catalogued by NRS as  "Charter by George, Lord Ramsay, to David Douglas, his servant, and Margaret Cuthbert, spouse of said David, of a piece of land in Dalhowssie occupied by the said David, James Whytlaw and Christian Kello" 

The deed transferring the land to John Douglas is described as "Precept of clare constat by William, Earl of Dalhousie, in favour of John Douglas, eldest son of deceased William Douglas, son of deceased David Douglas, as heir to his father in the lands contained in GD45/16/358"

And the testament dative after the death of William Douglas (available from ScotlandsPeople, and which I have) supports the family relationships.

I have some of this in my 'Rentons, Philips and Blains' tree on Ancestry, which you may be able to find i you have access. If you don't, I can send a link to your email address, if you wish.

David Douglas is also mentioned in some items in the Kirk Session minutes.

Best regards, Jenny

[Jenny Blain]

The younger William Douglas and his wife are in Poll Tax records in 1694, in household with his mother Margaret Cuthbert(son); there is also the elder William Douglas, most probably uncle of the younger one (i.e. brother of David), and his wife. Both Williams are tenant farmers in Dalhousie. 
The younger William died in August 1720, and the testament dative was drawn up obviously after this. Though it's a testament dative (not testamentar) so there is no 'latterwill', it contains much useful family information including that William had been married previously and had two daughters from the first marriage, in addition to the children of the second marriage to Janet Witherspoon.

[Diane Louise CRENGLE]

Hi Jenny. I thought better of my email address in public but happy if you contact me through Ancestry.com. hcrengle1 is username. I couldn't locate your mentioned tree this afternoon. It would a long reach to find DNA Matches for me further back than the generations of siblings Matches from David and Marion (5th gt grandfather to me) I would think but am very happy to have your thoughts and explore if a shared ancestor DNA connection at 7th gt grandparent could be there with the help of some searchable names.

[Jenny Blain]

I've sent you a link to your username, Diane.