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The Douglas/Douglas-Willan/Willan connection
I am seeking help with the following story about the connections between the Douglas and Willan family, and would be grateful for corrections and contributions:
A few days before he died, John Willan (wife Elizabeth) of How Hatch, South Weald, (died 11 Aug 1792), changed his will, which led to a court case Willan Vs Willan which contested his mental state at the time of signing. His nephew, John Willan disputed the will as the land was being left to ‘Uncle’ John’s great nephew, William Willan (presumably not John’s (the nephew) son).
John Willan (the nephew) was, in 1745, a hostler at the Lion Inn, Barnet. Described at the time of his death as a ‘great horse-contractor, late occupier of the Bull and Mouth’, he had by then accumulated £200,000 from the acquisition of horses for the artillery at the request of the Duke of Cumberland ‘on his return from Scotland’. John died at Hatton Garden about 17 July 1822.
The Bull and Mouth Inn was a famous coaching Inn, from where stage coaches travelled to and from various towns and cities, including Brighton. Two stagecoach operators on the Brighton Road were J Willan and JJ Willan, about whom it was said in court (not the Willan Vs Willan case above) that there was ‘no connection’. I am not sure of J Willan is one and the same as John Willan (the nephew).
JJ Willan was John James Willan, ‘a Hampshire man, formerly lived at Preston Candover’.
John Willan, of the Bull and Mouth, had a son, John Henning (died 1826), one of whose sons served in the Opium Wars c 1841, Henry, who was an assistant surgeon in the Royal Navy. It is to be noted that there are several Willans who became surgeons.
William Willan (died before 22 Apr 1823), a merchant, of How Hatch, South Weald, presumably the great nephew above, had a son, John James (died 1869), and three daughters, including Frances, who married Rev CA Belli, vicar of South Weald. This John James may, or may not be the John James, stagecoach operator and ‘Hampshire man’.
John James Wilan (died 1869) married Jane, daughter of Rev. George Walton Onslow (1768–1844), himself the son of George Onslow (28 April 1731 – 12 November 1792), a British politician and army officer, the eldest son of Richard Onslow and his second wife Pooley, and the nephew of Arthur Onslow, Speaker of the House of Commons. John James Willan (born 1799 in England; died 15 September 1869 at Whitchurch, Hampshire) was an English amateur cricketer who played first-class cricket from 1819 to 1830. He was mainly associated with Hampshire and with Marylebone Cricket Club (MCC), of which he was a member. He made 13 known appearances in first-class matches. He (they?) lived at Thomas Bank House, Whitchurch, Oxon (sic).
John James was father of Col Frank Willan, CMG, DSO.
Frank Willan (born 1846) was Colonel of the Oxfordshire Light Infantry, a DL, JP and Alderman for County of Hants. He was a heavily involved in rowing including captaining ‘the Oxford Four, which had beaten Harvard on the tideway’. He lived at both Burley Manor, Ringwood and Thorne Park, Bitterne, Southampton (also described as Thornhill Park, Hampshire). He married Louisa Marguerita Douglas, daughter of Captain Charles Robert George Douglas, late 32nd Bengal Light Infantry (Killed Dehli, 1847) and Louisa nee Robinson, both grandchildren of Major General Robert Douglas.
Frank and Louisa had two sons, Brigadier Frank Godfrey (1878-1957) and Brigadier Robert Hugh. There was also a daughter.
I have been unable to link Thomas Willan (died 12 may 1828, aged 78), of Marylebone Park and Twyford Abbey to the Willans detailed above, but apart from his dairy farm in Marylebone (now Regents Park), he was also a ‘London stagecoach proprietor’ operating from the Bull and Mouth. It is possible he was father or grandfather, to William Willan, and nephew or brother to the elder John Willan.
Thomas Willan had two (at least) daughters. His eldest, Isabella Maria (died 1862, aged 73) married John Kearsley Douglas, son of Lt General Robert Douglas, Royal Artillery. His youngest daughter, Jane, married, at Twyford, Captain Henry Seymour, a grandson of the 1st Marquess of Hertford.
John Kearsley took his wife’s name, thus becoming Douglas-Willan. His death in 1833, aged 48, was preceded by a long and painful illness, the effect of a severe wound received in Holland at an early age in the service of his king and country.
Isabella and John’s son, William Moffat Douglas-Willan sold Twyford Abbey in 1890 (or 1887?). Robert D-W, their 2nd son was a captain in the Scots Fusilier Guards. He died 26 Aug 1863. Their youngest son, Captain Stanhope Leonard D-W of the Queens Regiment married at Hove, Brighton, 7 Jan 1862, Georgiana Christina, daughter of F Burnett, Esq., of Cliftonville. His youngest daughter, Isabella Maria married Robert Douglas of HM Buffs.
There is apparently a family vault at Twyford Abbey. Mrs Margaret A. Douglas-Willan is interred there.
A Col Douglas-Willan is described as still being the ‘chief landowner’ (at Twyford) in 1908, and to be ‘still living at Andover’. He was the son of JC Douglas-Willan. This would be Colonel Henry Percy Douglas-Willan, ‘who fought with Lord Chelmsford during Zulu War’. He attended Victoria College, Jersey (entrance 2nd term 1863, left 1866). He entered the army (4th Hussars). Transferred to Kings Dragoon Guards 1879. Served in Zulu and Boer Wars. Retired 1899. C.B. 1902. Asst. Director of Remounts, Sn. Command 1905, placed on half pay dated 16/6/94. Lived at Andover. Died 1912. Who was JC D-W?
Henry Percy had a son, Major John Gordon D-W, and a grandson, Major Walter Gordon D-W of the Durham Light Infantry, who was killed 24 Mar 1918 at St Quentin, France
Questions arising:
1. Who was Lt General Robert Douglas, Royal Artillery, father of John Kearsley Douglas?
2. Who was Major General Robert Douglas, grandfather of Charles Douglas and Louisa Robinson?
3. Who was William Willan’s father?
4. How does Thomas Willan link into this Willan family?
5. Was J Willan John Willan?
6. Was John James, father of Col Frank Willan the son of William Willan?
7. How does JC Douglas-Willan relate to John Kearsley?
8. Who was Robert Douglas, of HM Buffs?
A few days before he died, John Willan (wife Elizabeth) of How Hatch, South Weald, (died 11 Aug 1792), changed his will, which led to a court case Willan Vs Willan which contested his mental state at the time of signing. His nephew, John Willan disputed the will as the land was being left to ‘Uncle’ John’s great nephew, William Willan (presumably not John’s (the nephew) son).
John Willan (the nephew) was, in 1745, a hostler at the Lion Inn, Barnet. Described at the time of his death as a ‘great horse-contractor, late occupier of the Bull and Mouth’, he had by then accumulated £200,000 from the acquisition of horses for the artillery at the request of the Duke of Cumberland ‘on his return from Scotland’. John died at Hatton Garden about 17 July 1822.
The Bull and Mouth Inn was a famous coaching Inn, from where stage coaches travelled to and from various towns and cities, including Brighton. Two stagecoach operators on the Brighton Road were J Willan and JJ Willan, about whom it was said in court (not the Willan Vs Willan case above) that there was ‘no connection’. I am not sure of J Willan is one and the same as John Willan (the nephew).
JJ Willan was John James Willan, ‘a Hampshire man, formerly lived at Preston Candover’.
John Willan, of the Bull and Mouth, had a son, John Henning (died 1826), one of whose sons served in the Opium Wars c 1841, Henry, who was an assistant surgeon in the Royal Navy. It is to be noted that there are several Willans who became surgeons.
William Willan (died before 22 Apr 1823), a merchant, of How Hatch, South Weald, presumably the great nephew above, had a son, John James (died 1869), and three daughters, including Frances, who married Rev CA Belli, vicar of South Weald. This John James may, or may not be the John James, stagecoach operator and ‘Hampshire man’.
John James Wilan (died 1869) married Jane, daughter of Rev. George Walton Onslow (1768–1844), himself the son of George Onslow (28 April 1731 – 12 November 1792), a British politician and army officer, the eldest son of Richard Onslow and his second wife Pooley, and the nephew of Arthur Onslow, Speaker of the House of Commons. John James Willan (born 1799 in England; died 15 September 1869 at Whitchurch, Hampshire) was an English amateur cricketer who played first-class cricket from 1819 to 1830. He was mainly associated with Hampshire and with Marylebone Cricket Club (MCC), of which he was a member. He made 13 known appearances in first-class matches. He (they?) lived at Thomas Bank House, Whitchurch, Oxon (sic).
John James was father of Col Frank Willan, CMG, DSO.
Frank Willan (born 1846) was Colonel of the Oxfordshire Light Infantry, a DL, JP and Alderman for County of Hants. He was a heavily involved in rowing including captaining ‘the Oxford Four, which had beaten Harvard on the tideway’. He lived at both Burley Manor, Ringwood and Thorne Park, Bitterne, Southampton (also described as Thornhill Park, Hampshire). He married Louisa Marguerita Douglas, daughter of Captain Charles Robert George Douglas, late 32nd Bengal Light Infantry (Killed Dehli, 1847) and Louisa nee Robinson, both grandchildren of Major General Robert Douglas.
Frank and Louisa had two sons, Brigadier Frank Godfrey (1878-1957) and Brigadier Robert Hugh. There was also a daughter.
I have been unable to link Thomas Willan (died 12 may 1828, aged 78), of Marylebone Park and Twyford Abbey to the Willans detailed above, but apart from his dairy farm in Marylebone (now Regents Park), he was also a ‘London stagecoach proprietor’ operating from the Bull and Mouth. It is possible he was father or grandfather, to William Willan, and nephew or brother to the elder John Willan.
Thomas Willan had two (at least) daughters. His eldest, Isabella Maria (died 1862, aged 73) married John Kearsley Douglas, son of Lt General Robert Douglas, Royal Artillery. His youngest daughter, Jane, married, at Twyford, Captain Henry Seymour, a grandson of the 1st Marquess of Hertford.
John Kearsley took his wife’s name, thus becoming Douglas-Willan. His death in 1833, aged 48, was preceded by a long and painful illness, the effect of a severe wound received in Holland at an early age in the service of his king and country.
Isabella and John’s son, William Moffat Douglas-Willan sold Twyford Abbey in 1890 (or 1887?). Robert D-W, their 2nd son was a captain in the Scots Fusilier Guards. He died 26 Aug 1863. Their youngest son, Captain Stanhope Leonard D-W of the Queens Regiment married at Hove, Brighton, 7 Jan 1862, Georgiana Christina, daughter of F Burnett, Esq., of Cliftonville. His youngest daughter, Isabella Maria married Robert Douglas of HM Buffs.
There is apparently a family vault at Twyford Abbey. Mrs Margaret A. Douglas-Willan is interred there.
A Col Douglas-Willan is described as still being the ‘chief landowner’ (at Twyford) in 1908, and to be ‘still living at Andover’. He was the son of JC Douglas-Willan. This would be Colonel Henry Percy Douglas-Willan, ‘who fought with Lord Chelmsford during Zulu War’. He attended Victoria College, Jersey (entrance 2nd term 1863, left 1866). He entered the army (4th Hussars). Transferred to Kings Dragoon Guards 1879. Served in Zulu and Boer Wars. Retired 1899. C.B. 1902. Asst. Director of Remounts, Sn. Command 1905, placed on half pay dated 16/6/94. Lived at Andover. Died 1912. Who was JC D-W?
Henry Percy had a son, Major John Gordon D-W, and a grandson, Major Walter Gordon D-W of the Durham Light Infantry, who was killed 24 Mar 1918 at St Quentin, France
Questions arising:
1. Who was Lt General Robert Douglas, Royal Artillery, father of John Kearsley Douglas?
2. Who was Major General Robert Douglas, grandfather of Charles Douglas and Louisa Robinson?
3. Who was William Willan’s father?
4. How does Thomas Willan link into this Willan family?
5. Was J Willan John Willan?
6. Was John James, father of Col Frank Willan the son of William Willan?
7. How does JC Douglas-Willan relate to John Kearsley?
8. Who was Robert Douglas, of HM Buffs?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David A.L. Baynham on
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Hi William:
I am 95% sure that I have the last name of our Thomas Willan's wife "Christiana" and their date of marriage as well as birth dates and locations of their children I am 85% sure that I know his paternal ancestry (with a 50% probability of being able to prove it rigorously). Verification will take several weeks.
So far, apart from myself, you would appear to be the only active contributor to our knowledge base.
People who casually drop in to your website probably do not realize that we spend hundreds of hours and some treasor in performing our research- much of which would be avoided if they made the minimal effort to supply information regarding names of ancestors and for, christenings, marriages and deaths, dates and locations. To illustrate my postings on the Military Family of Douglas-Willan and Lt. General Robert Douglas, R.A. have been reviewed by hundreds of people with no replies providing useable information.
I hold you personally in high esteem but, unless I get responses to my questions, in the interim, I will hold this information.
Best regards,
David
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David....before bitching, moaning and making snide comments I would suggest you check your PERSONAL messages. Just an idea. 'Punishing' those that don't reply to your posts publicly in what you consider a timely fashion, by announcing you will be 'holding information' ,is nothing short of childless. And nothing short of selfish for everyone else on the forum. Again, check your personal messages.
Sincerely,
Claudine Douglas.
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*** "CHILDISH"
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Claudine:
What on earth is this about?? It appears to be a late 2011 post replying to my 2009 post.
I stand by everything I wrote at the time which was singularly appropriate since you apparently did not bother to follow up on the (unsubstantiated) information which you posted at the time.
The only personal messge I received was from Seth.
I subsequently sent the Willan pedigree to William.
My efforts to validate the family relationships (from information you provided) from documents of record were unsuccessful.
David Baynham
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Permalink Reply by William Douglas on
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It is disappointing, isn't it?
I have posts on numerous message boards, as i know do you, with no result.
However, I do think that this is not because those viewing are not sharing - I just don't think they (most anyway) have that knowledge. A recent trawl of the internet did not reveal anyone else working in the area (but see below), and I would have expected something to show up if there was.
What was new to me was this discussion - http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=tliuft5op3a9qjv7...
I was amazed to see my entry appear on Google 6 hours later!
I would like to hear from Claudine again, though!
Yours aye,
William
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Hi William:
After many hours of research, I have now established Thomas Willan's ancestry and have the name of his wife and date of their marriage as well as the baptismal entries of their children. Additionally, I have established the interrelationships amongst the various Willans associated with the Bull and Mouth Inn.
So now it is up to Claudine to respond to my questions regarding the ancestry of Robert Douglas.
Best regards,
David
William Douglas said:It is disappointing, isn't it?
I have posts on numerous message boards, as i know do you, with no result.
However, I do think that this is not because those viewing are not sharing - I just don't think they (most anyway) have that knowledge. A recent trawl of the internet did not reveal anyone else working in the area (but see below), and I would have expected something to show up if there was.
What was new to me was this discussion - http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=tliuft5op3a9qjv7...
I was amazed to see my entry appear on Google 6 hours later!
I would like to hear from Claudine again, though!
Yours aye,
William
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Happy New Year, David.
Yes, we wait patiently!
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William;
Serendepity.
I was websurfing and found the following death notice in a recognized journal, dated May 1783, regarding (apparently Lt. Col.) Robert Douglas, who Claudine indicated was Lt. General Robert Douglas, RA's father:
"On St. Margaret Bank. near Rochester, Robert Douglas, Esq. Lieutenant- Colonel of the Chatham Divison of Marines."
The above accords with the probate date of his will.
Unfortunately, there are three C. of E. parishes in Rochester and unless I can narrow it down to one of them ordering and searching all the records would be both unnecessarily expensive and time consuming. Guessing that St. Margaret's Bank is in St. Margaret's Parish, St. Margaret's Parish would appear the most likely residence for the family but the marriage most likely took place in the (unknown) parish of Mary (Robert senior's wife).
Regards and best wishes for the New Year,
David
William Douglas said:Happy New Year, David.
Yes, we wait patiently!
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Re John Kearsley Douglas / Isabella Maria Willan
The two missing children are Mary Jane born 17/7/1812 died 6/8/1812
Archibald R. Croft born 22/1/1822 died 3/1/1823
Lilian
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Thank you - another of the missing pieces falls into place.
Still some way to go sorting out the ancestors though!
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Hello William, Isabella Maria Douglas Willan, was my G G G G grandmother, Claudine may fill more Gaps in on family. Isabella had other homes as well as Friary. Do not have this info at the moment.
David A.L. Baynham said:Hi William:
After many hours of research, I have now established Thomas Willan's ancestry and have the name of his wife and date of their marriage as well as the baptismal entries of their children. Additionally, I have established the interrelationships amongst the various Willans associated with the Bull and Mouth Inn.
So now it is up to Claudine to respond to my questions regarding the ancestry of Robert Douglas.
Best regards,
David
William Douglas said:It is disappointing, isn't it?
I have posts on numerous message boards, as i know do you, with no result.
However, I do think that this is not because those viewing are not sharing - I just don't think they (most anyway) have that knowledge. A recent trawl of the internet did not reveal anyone else working in the area (but see below), and I would have expected something to show up if there was.
What was new to me was this discussion - http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=tliuft5op3a9qjv7...
I was amazed to see my entry appear on Google 6 hours later!
I would like to hear from Claudine again, though!
Yours aye,
William
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It is now 2012 and I am jumping into the fray!! My knowledge is very limited, but I am trying to learn more. As I plan for a spring trip to England I went back to a couple of my 'brick walls' to see what I could find and what I needed to look for while in the country. My Great grandmother, Julia Willan, came to Mobile, Alabama, USA from Canada after the death of her parents, Thomas William Willan and Julia Gugy Willan. Lots of info on the Gugys, nothing on Willan. I knew that Thomas William was from England and that he had studied to be a solicitor. Several years ago while I was looking nothing came up, BUT this week as I cruised the web I found the site for Lincoln's Inn. A most helpful person there sent me information relating to his attendance there, giving his father's name, John, and their address - Hatton Garden. A few days later she sent me another email telling me that John was coachmaster of the Bull and Mouth. This appears to tie in with your Willan family.
I haven't yet taken in all of the info that you and David A. L. Baynham have placed on this site, but wanted to jump in here and see what I could find. Also to see if you are interested in what happened to Thomas William Willan.
Melanie
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