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Drysdale - a Douglas sept
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Drysdale is considered a sept of the Douglas clan, but it is quite likely that this was a separate family which existed previous to when the three Douglas brothers adopted the Drysdale name. A sept is a family that can be related to a clan or larger family for various reasons. Usually this came about either through marriage or by a small family seeking protection from a larger and more powerful neighbour.
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Story of the creation of the Drysdale family
The following is said to tell the story of the creation of the Drysdale family, it was actually part of the Black Douglas clan which remained in Scotland, following their failed attempt against the Scots crown in 1455. [Earlier references to Drysdale, or Dryfesdale can be found]
"On the Twentieth Day of May, One Thousand Five Hundred and Three Years
We, Thomas, William, and James Douglass, sons of the departed Thomas Douglass, of Brushwood Haugh, in the parish of Drysdale, and Shire of Dumfries, left our native place for the reason here assigned, viz:- Defending our just and lawful rights against our unjust neighbour, Johnston of Greenstonhill, who, being determined to bring water to his mill through our property, and having obtained leave of his friend, the King, began his operations on Monday, the 16th of May, We prevented him by force.
The next day he brought twenty of his vassels to carry on the work. We with two friends and three servants, (eight in all,) attacked Johnston with his twenty, and, in the contest, fourteen of his men were killed, along with their base leader. A report of these proceedings was carried to the King, and we were obliged to fly, (the tocsin being sounded).
We took shelter under the shadow of the Ochil Hills, in a lonely valley on the river Devon. After having lived there a full two years, we returned home in disguise, but found all our property in the possession of Johnston's friends, and a great reward offered for our lives. We, having purchased a small spot, called the Haugh of Dollar, and changed our names to the name of our Parish, are clearly in mind to spend the residue of our days under the ope of the Ochils, and wish the name of Drysdale to flourish in the lonely valley. The King passed through this with his Court on the 12th of June, 1506, going from Stirling to Falkland - dined on Halliday's green. (an eastern neighbour;) but we were not recognised."
The above story has been preserved among the desendants of Thomas, William, and James Douglass, now known by the name of Drysdale, and copied at several times by different individuals - first, by Simon Drysdale of the Haugh of Dollar, in the year 1620; by Robert Drysdale of Tillicoultry, in 1708; by John Drysdale, Dunfermline, in 1835; by James Drysdale, Dumfermline, in 1838; by John Montrose Drysdale, in 1841; by George Drysdale, Aberdeen, in 1845; by David Drysdale, Glasgow, in 1857; by John Harrower Drysdale, Aylmer, Ontario, Canada, in 1920; and now by Nicholas Edwin Kontzie (great-great-grandson of Jane Drysdale), Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, in 2000.
Discussion Forum
Early Drysdale families in Yorkshire
Started by Ronald Drysdale. Last reply by William Douglas Dec 7. 5 Replies 1 Like
As previously mentioned there were a contingent of Drysdale families in Yorkshire (Kirkleatham, Stokesley & Scarborough) from the mid 1500s onwards:…Continue
Tags: Douglas, Drusdall, Drusdaill, Stokesley, Scarborough
The Drysdales of Dollar
Started by Ronald Drysdale. Last reply by Ronald Drysdale Aug 5. 19 Replies 1 Like
The 1998 publication - 'History of Dollar' contains a lot of information concerning early Drysdale feuars & tenants in Dollar i.e. residents of Dollar prior to 1605 & thereafter:…Continue
Tags: Lag, Dumfries, Dollar, Douglas, Gregorsoune
1568 - Mary Queen of Scots escape from Lochleven castle - were George Douglas & John Drysdale paid to help?
Started by Ronald Drysdale. Last reply by Ronald Drysdale Jul 21. 3 Replies 2 Likes
Mary Queen of Scots' last official letters as Queen of Scotland show that both George Douglas & John Drysdale had possible pecuniary interests in helping her to escape from Lochleven Castle and…Continue
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Comment by Ronald Drysdale yesterday
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Dancing with the Dead by Helena Drysdale
A journey to the spice islands of Zanzibar and Madagascar
Letters and a shroud in her aunt’s attic led Helena Drysdale to follow in the wake of her nineteenth century ancestors to the spice islands of
Zanzibar and the Comoros, and into the hidden wilds of Madagascar. She unearthed stories of slave trading and piracy, and was soon caught up in the Malagasy worship of their ancestors.I had read a couple of books by this lady before, she's a good writer, but I haven't read Dancing with the Dead yet - it sounds interesting.
Best regards
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Hi William,
Re Drysdale River
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drysdale_River
The river was named after a director of the Victorian Squatting Company, Thomas Andrew Drysdale, by the company's surveyor Charles Burrowes, in 1886.
https://peopleaustralia.anu.edu.au/biography/drysdale-thomas-andrew...
Thomas Andrew Drysdale - Wife - Annie Susannah Drysdale
Birth 2 February, 1828 Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Death 4 September, 1905 (aged 77) East Melbourne, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Cause of Death cancer (stomach)From Ancestry.com:
Born in Sydney, New South Wales, Australia on 2 Feb 1828 to [Captain] Andrew Drysdale and Rachel Turnbull. Thomas Andrew Drysdale married Ann Susannah Chapman and had 9 children. He passed away on 6 Sep 1905 in East Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.Note: Captain Andrew Drysdale was a well known Australian Pioneer.
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Comment by William Douglas yesterday
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http://www.helenadrysdale.com/biography.htm
Apparently, her books use material based on her ancestors.
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The Drysdale Roman Catholic Mission in Napier Broome Bay was apparently named for the Drysdale River, a National Park, in Western Australia.
Which Drysdale has the honour of having the river named for them?
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Hi William,
The death cert. is quite a useful source and I'll upload it to Familysearch.
It seems as though the Graham family already has quite a well developed tree there:
If I get some time I'll chase the Drysdale line back for a few further generations
Best regards
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I have bee
n given sight of a bundle of papers regarding the McLean family which included these:
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Name variations:
Draysdal, Draysdale, Draysdel, Draysdell, Draysdil, Draysdile, Draysdul, Draysdyle, Drisdal, Drisdale, Drisdele, Drisdelle, Drisdil, Drisdile, Drisdul, Drisdyle, Drisedal, Drisedale, Drisedil, Drisedile, Drisedul, Drisedyle, Dryfesdal, Dryfesdale, Dryfesdil, Dryfesdile, Dryfesdul, Dryfesdyle, Dryisdal, Dryisdale, Dryisdel, Dryisdell, Dryisdil, Dryisdile, Dryisdul, Dryisdyle, Drysdal, Drysdale, Drysdel, Drysdell, Drysdil, Drysdile, Drysdul, Drysdyle,
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Hi William,
You are probably right about that and I don't know of any documented male Drysdales showing male Douglas ancestry.
Meanwhile, I haven't tested mine and don't intend to.
In today's society, such data is not secure and if sold on or otherwise disseminated to unscrupulous third parties - who knows what "they" can do with it.
But I agree, from a genealogical sense, it would be interesting to see what DNA testing across a wide spectrum of Drysdale families would reveal.
Best regards
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My deduction on DNA research is that not enough Drysdales have tested their DNA.
But this certainly not my area of expertise!
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Taking note of Mark's Query on Bing's AI in the previous post, I put a similar query to Google:
"clans douglas drysdale dna genealogy"
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Based on genealogical and DNA evidence, the Scottish surname Drysdale is considered a sept of Clan Douglas, with historical origins predating this association. DNA projects can help descendants confirm and investigate their specific connections to either the Douglas lineage or other Drysdale families.
Drysdale origins: A sept of Douglas
The relationship between the Drysdale and Douglas names is complex, with both traditional accounts and DNA data shedding light on their shared history.Drysdale's connection to Douglas: Traditional accounts state that some Drysdales are descended from three Douglas brothers who, in 1503, were exiled from Dryfesdale in Dumfriesshire after a conflict. They resettled in Fife, adopting the Drysdale name.
Drysdale's earlier origin: The name Drysdale (originally Dryfesdale) was in use before the 1503 event. The name is locational, deriving from the Dryfe Water valley in Dumfriesshire, where a church was dedicated as early as 1116. This suggests that not all Drysdale lines originate from the Douglas brothers.
Sept relationship: Because of these various origins, the Clan Douglas Society of North America (CDSNA) classifies Drysdale as a sept, or an allied family, of Clan Douglas. This classification acknowledges a historical association rather than assuming all Drysdales are direct paternal descendants of the Douglas clan.
DNA evidence for Douglas and Drysdale
Genetic genealogy projects have helped confirm and distinguish between different Douglas and Drysdale lines.Douglas DNA Project: The Douglas Archives run an ongoing DNA project that uses Y-DNA testing to explore the different lineages within the clan. By comparing the Y-DNA (passed from father to son) of modern descendants to known historical lines, they can confirm connections to different branches, such as the Earls of Drumlanrig/Queensberry and the Earls of Morton.
Multiple lineages: DNA testing has shown that the Douglas clan is composed of several distinct Y-DNA lineages. For example, some proven lines, such as the Drumlanrig/Queensberry/Morton Douglases, belong to the R1a haplogroup. Other lineages have different haplogroups, such as E3b, suggesting multiple historical origins for families bearing the Douglas surname.
Identifying specific branches: The Douglas DNA project has successfully distinguished between different branches. For example, by testing descendants of Domini Douglas and the Earls of Morton, researchers proved that their Y-DNA profiles do not match. This confirmed that Domini was likely not a paternal descendant of the same line as the Earls of Morton, a finding consistent with his mother being Irish.
How to use DNA for genealogy
For those with Douglas or Drysdale ancestry, DNA testing can provide valuable genealogical insights.Y-DNA testing: A male Drysdale or Douglas can take a Y-DNA test to trace his direct paternal line. The results can then be compared to the larger Douglas DNA project database to see if he matches any of the documented Douglas lineages. A non-match could suggest the line descends from an earlier Dryfesdale family or another unassociated line.
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